Curse

freekedoutfish · Jul 13, 2007, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stupid Shizno

insulting something you obvsiously dont know anything is something you should think about. you say ebaying gold is wrong, yet you defend farming for hours on end?

Shizo Im really failing to see what your Grief is?

Yes I believe that using ebay to buy items, materials and earn gold is wrong. And where exactly did I defend the idea of spending hour farming as an alterantive?

Try not to put words in my mouth to justify your want to have a go at me.

Are you suggesting that buying ingame items or gold on ebay for real-world currency is acceptable behaviour? If so, then you agreeing with something goes against the terms of use.

Buying items for real-world currency is blatent cheating, because you have the distinct advantage if you are rich in real life.

Are you also suggesting the ebay'ing and farming is the ONLY way to make gold ingame?

I have never once tried to defend or incourage farming. I actually dont agree with farming, because Im not a player who feels the need to be rich (Note that my defenition of farming is to enter an instance with the sole intention of killing creatures for their drops and gold).

I'm quite happy with my personal wealth (which is currently around 100g) because I work for my gear. I usually start at 0g most times, and I earn what I need from purely doing missions, quests, vanquishing, exploring and title earning.

I dont spend hours endlessly killing things to earn wealth or attain drops, and I never would.

I survive on having virtually nothing, and when I do need gold for an item, I earn it without ebay or farming.

You DO NOT need to either use ebay, or spend hours farming to make wealth inside GuildWars. Those players who state "it is impossible to make enough gold to surive by simply playing the game" are liers and their greedy.

It is extremely easy to make enough gold purely from missions, quests, exploration and other casual forms of play. You simply sell those drops to the merchant and you can make 1-5k in one single run of a mission or quest. I do it myself and In nearly 2 years I have managed to buy several 15k armors which are dyed expensive .

I say this to make a point, not to brag...

...I recently bought 5k vabbian armor for my ele, along with Ragos flame staff. I start at 0g and never once farmed or ebayed.

I made enough for Ragos staff purely by doing all hard mode missions in Tyria and Cantha. I made enough for my 5k vabbian armor purely from vanquishing, hard mode missions and selling items for undercut prices in Elona.

I really dont understand what your issue is with me stating a negative view towards ebay'ers. They cheat and they are greedy. They use a means to create gold that is completely un-neccessary or required.

So again... yes, IMO anyone who uses ebay is a vanity player who is purely bothered about buying the best armor, the best weapons and earning rich amounts of gold to buy titles and materials.

Are you going to try and defend the actions of ebay'ers?

bad person · Jul 13, 2007, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Buying items for real-world currency is blatent cheating, because you have the distinct advantage if you are rich in real life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freakedoutfish

I really dont understand what your issue is with me stating a negative view towards ebay'ers. They cheat and they are greedy. They use a means to create gold that is completely un-neccessary or required.

If it's completely unnecessary or required, how do the players who buy in-game gold with real-world money have a distinct advantage?

Malice Black · Jul 13, 2007, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish
Buying items for real-world currency is blatent cheating, because you have the distinct advantage if you are rich in real life.

I have the real world funds to buy all the online gold available, doesn't mean I want to or will.

As someone who use to be easily in the top ten rich list I can say having millions of gold is all well and good, but, at the end of the day it just makes the game dull. I had nothing to aim for, nothing was out of my grasp. I could go into High End sell and B/O everything in a flash...the fun ends when you become rich. Most of the games rich have long since quit because of that reason.

Buying gold might bring a small surge of joy but at the end of the day its the average Joe who is still playing the game after all the merchants and hardcore farmers have long quit.

So..does buying gold give anyone an advantage? nope, will just shorten their enjoyment of the game.

As this thread is turning into flamebait city, I think I'll bail out now. I can do civilized discussion but it's apparent a lot of you are not capable of that.

freekedoutfish · Jul 13, 2007, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by bad person

If it's completely unnecessary or required, how do the players who buy in-game gold with real-world money have a distinct advantage?

It helps if you read it in the correct context.

My point was that its not neccessary to use ebay or farming to generate material or gold wealth ingame. Because casual play is more then enough to generate such things.

But you have alot of players who say..

"You cant make enough gold to survive or buy anything ingame, by just playing the game."

...which is absolute rubbish. I never farm or ebay, so how come I manage to buy all my gear easily enough. It may take a few weeks, but it can be done.

Ebaying is purely for greedy players who want an instant hit of wealth.

Ebaying also unbalances the game, by adding an unfair advantage of real-world wealth into the equation. If you have money to burn in real life, then you can afford to ebay and buy gold, materials and weapons. If you dont have real world money to spend, then you are limited to what you can achieve ingame.

But we shouldnt be using real-world wealth to effect what we can own ingame. We should all be on equal ground, and have the same advantages as each other. We should all only be using what we earn from drops, or trading ingame.

Cebe · Jul 13, 2007, 02:08 PM // 14:08

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Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

I recently spent a few days trying to get one staff, collector Lotus Death Staff, which requires Skull Jujus. None would drop in days of romping in Echovald. I have not seen any really decent drops.

Sometimes you need to use your head a bit. That's not a criticism at you, but I understand what you're saying...trying to get a collector's item to drop when you want it is a REAL pain...a bit like Venerable Mantid Pincers...there's next to nothing that drops them and the ones that do never drop them anyway. However, just thinking it through, what drops Skull Jujus? Gakis. What is THE most farmed Gaki boss in the entire GW Universe? The Scar Eater. Simple Solution...go to Vasburg Armory, Find an E/A or A/E who is blatently farming and ask them to save them for you, unless you can farm him yourself. That geezer drops a fair few Jujus.

Avarre · Jul 13, 2007, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Ebaying also unbalances the game, by adding an unfair advantage of real-world wealth into the equation. If you have money to burn in real life, then you can afford to ebay and buy gold, materials and weapons. If you dont have real world money to spend, then you are limited to what you can achieve ingame.

But we shouldnt be using real-world wealth to effect what we can own ingame. We should all be on equal ground, and have the same advantages as each other. We should all only be using what we earn from drops, or trading ingame.

So you're saying that more gold can somehow make you a better player, hence imbalancing the game?

freekedoutfish · Jul 13, 2007, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

So you're saying that more gold can somehow make you a better player, hence imbalancing the game?

Did I use the term "makes you a better player"? No and I didnt mean in that context.

When I used the term "imbalances the game" I was refereing to people who have user real-world money to buy ingame gold having an advantage at making gold which other players dont.

That shouldnt happen because we dont all have that choice or ability, due to varied real-world wealth.

We should all be on equal ground by only using gold that we earn inside the game. We all start with nothing ingame, and we all have the same facilities and abilities available to use to earn that gold.

Whether it be trading, farming and/or drops.

I never meant to suggest that ebaying makes a player better. Material wealth and posession certainly doesnt make a person better at anything.

But by using real-world money to buy ingame money or materials, it gives an unfair advantage that not everyone has. A person who is poorer in the real world, cant afford to blow £1-£10 on buying millions in gold or materials on ebay.

Its an edge they shouldnt have. We shouldnt have outside influences benefiting players in the game concerning wealth, because we dont have all the outside influences to use.

We should all have the same advantage and abilities to make gold, to ensure an balanced economy.

bad person · Jul 13, 2007, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

So you're saying that more gold can somehow make you a better player, hence imbalancing the game?

You beat me to it, that was exactly my point: Nothing is limitless in this game and a perfect req. 8 whatever that someone might buy for hundreds of thousands of gold is no better than a weapon that could be had from a collector.

WarKaster · Jul 13, 2007, 06:00 PM // 18:00

i still don't know where e-bay comes in but can we all agree that....

If you buy Game Gold for real currency the terrorists win.

and leave it at that

DeBron · Jul 13, 2007, 06:19 PM // 18:19

15h . . . wow.

jrk247 · Jul 13, 2007, 06:35 PM // 18:35

OMG I suck at getting drops (even though I play over half the day everyday) BLAME eBay!!1!

I seriously doubt you play that long everyday, and if you do then you should be able to get item drops that you are specifically farming for unless you don't farm for them as long as you say you do.

Here's something for the OP.

Fitz Rinley · Jul 13, 2007, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Quote:

Cacheelma:
You play 15 hours a day and you don't get enough gold for some STAFF MODS?!

Where do you play on, exactly? Shing Jea? (I'd still say you should have enough gold even from Shing Jea. How much does the +30hp mod cost anyway? 6k?)

I don’t think you were paying attention. There was no discussion concerning any staff mods. I was working Echovald Forest and specifically targeting all Gaki and Gaki relatives for Skull Jujus to be able to get a collector weapon. No Skull Jujus ever dropped. Because they were not dropping, in disgust, I took up the loathsome and detestable grunge of repeatedly murdering the same gaki spawn point. I took one hero, Tahlkora, because I am an Ele period. I do not have an assassin far enough along to swing together the farming build and I do not have the equipment (and cannot afford the equipment) for that detestable obstacle to playing the game anyway. (Fact: If you are farming you are not playing - you are working for a paycheck.)

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Curse You:

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Fitz Rinley:
If you make what they do worthless then they will not Bot. If people do not need to go to them to get what they are after they will not have a market. Destroy the foundation of their market and you will eliminate the bots. It is not a pea shooter, it is an Inter-Continental Ballistic Missile. If no one has a reason to buy from them they will have no reason to destroy our gaming and in the meantime we will be able to get things we want.

And you purpose doing this by doing what? Make things not drop anything?

The exact opposite.

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Fitz Rinley:
And if you support the restrictions you support the sweat shop.

Eh, what? That's like saying that because you support gun control, you support bank robberies.

Your correlation is inaccurate. Prohibition proved that removing alcohol from the public only increased their interest in obtaining it through illicit means, as they could not get what they wanted through legal means. Prohibition of drops only provides incentive for players to seek them through illicit means because they cannot obtain them through their own effort as individuals whose effort is of worth to themselves. Eliminating the prohibition on drops will eliminate the reason players seek alternative means to obtain them.
In the case of gun control you are correct. Prohibition of guns on law abiding citizens only increases the ratio of guns among the criminal elements of society intent on doing harm to the law abiding citizens. Violent crimes against persons goes down where concealed carry is passed and maintained, with the greatest benefit being to women – rape goes down the most. Crime does however increase. Studies in the SW states of criminals bereft of the ability to use violence against the unarmed seem to manifest a high level of expression in grafitti.

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Fitz Rinley:
Buy them with what? To buy things one has to have money.

It's very hard to believe that you could play for 15 hours and get hardly any gold. I can play for an hour and get myself more than 1k, without farming.

With as many gold sinks as there are in this game? Everything you get requires gold. Your heroes are always dead if you don’t put runes on them. You have to bribe officials to protect Tengu nests, pay priests every time you walk out a door so you can gain faction, buy skills and cap sigs, and I refuse to purchase ale for my warrior. I have a mule that does nothing but Shing Jea quests for Monastery Credits then he dies and starts over – although

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Fitz Rinley:
What is the point in grinding if after three days in the area there is not a single drop? What is the point in grinding if you camp on the spawn point right outside The Eternal Grove and repeatedly walk out the door to kill the one thing that spawns it so often that you level and go 71% to getting another skill point and there is still no drop. Further, there is not even a gold drop. Anything of value drops so rarely as to be negligible.

You've gotten 71%? That's 1 hour of farming, tops, unless you're very slow. Don't expect all the drops after 1 hour of farming.

I went from well below a level, noticed leveling, and started keeping track. The pattern was walk out of The Eternal Grove into Drazach Thicket, look through the cliff to see if the Gaki spawned, if spawned go kill it, if not go in, once dead and no Skull Juju drop – repeat. Every few repeats map from The Eternal Grove to other two sites around Drazach Thicket and ask if anyone had some Skull Jujus they had not marched. Then map back and murder the gaki again.

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The chance of most good drops is 5% or less. In 1 hour, a fast person can get maybe 1 run ever 10 minutes. That's 6 runs in 1 hour. So in order for you to have a 100% chance of getting a good drop, you need to farm for almost 17 hours. That, however, is if you want to guarantee a drop. They usually will drop before then.

And that is absolute crap. There is no reason for this kind of lunacy. That is not playing that is going to work at an assembly line job for virtual crap. It is an obstacle in the way of playing and it is what makes the Bot industry a 7 billion dollar a year industry.

[QUOTE]

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Fitz Rinley:
I am my guild and I will Never allow you or anyone else to make me destroy my colors, my coat of arms, or my individuality. I am quite aware that with the creation of Factions it was ANets intention to coerce the destruction of all non-Zerg guilds and obliterate all PvE players. I will never submit to either.
You mean one with no indivudality, creativity, or personal expression? I see plenty of such "decent guilds." You are not big enough to make me. You may kill me but you will never defeat me.

Um yea, I just had to quote all of this. Do you think that by joining a guild with other people, they'll be able to probe your brain? Seriously, stop being so paranoid. [QUOTE]So by joining another guild I will keep my coat of arms and my designation? By joining another guild what I created as my own personal expression will be maintained for me and will display for me? Your red herring does not detract from these facts. There is no expectation of some science-fictional brain probe. My observations have not changed, and ANet has not returned to having things they way they were Pre-view weekend or as discussed in the forums before release of Factions.

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Moving on. I'm sure what the person meant was that you should consider altering your play style, since your current method is obviously not working out.

One either benefits from playing or they do not. Style is a matter of artistic expression and it is not something which one can alter in GW without huge sums of gold, which we have discussed I do not have.
I should not have to alter anything to fit to the Bots. It is ANet’s reponsiblity to protect play and ensure I am able to have an enjoyable and rewarding experience without their game being hacked, my account being hacked (which their store evidently doesn’t bother to do), or things like bots/ebayers destroying the value of play. If as you say, a drop can only be guaranteed at about 17 hours of play, then it is about three and a half weeks for an employed player (at five 3 hour sessions/week) to potentially get three Skull Jujus.

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Knight_Blazer:
Like everyone else says, if you can't get gold playing 15 hours a day you're not doing it right. I can easily get 1-2 Dwayna's grace within a hour with a ritualist spirit spammer and flag henchmen away and 1 green is already a easy 25k. If you don't find anything of value (farming Raisu Palace or whatever, farming Cantha sucks in general, but there are some worthwhile greens like Razajan's fervor) then you're farming in the wrong place. simple as that.

No, all farming sucks, period. But tell me which of these greens is worth 25k: Tahkayun’s Pincers or Modoss’ Focus?

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If farming a obscure trophy (skull juju) is hard and unprofitable there are other options, buy a green or a inscribable gold with the tons of money you get farming greens or whatever. If you absolutely want the collector's item then you're making your life hard for no reason.

I went looking for the Skull Juju because I do not get decent drops. I do not get decent money. I do not buy e-bay gold. With the collector staves I can at least have something worth looking at while I play until I can attempt to afford to by the mods I need to make it worth using. Because the fact is, I will never see something like Nightbringer drop for me. That kind of thing does not happen for regular players of the game. I can not even get a damned body part to drop, why would I ever, expect a decent usable item to drop. (I have had two usable greens drop in the 21 months I have owned the game: Bludgeoner and Kepkhet’s Refuge. I purchased Rockmoulder, and I was given Shadestone. As of 3 am this morning I bested Shiro (with only heroes and henchies) and I obtained Tac shield for my Dervish. However, I do not count that last as a dropped Green.

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Knight_Blazer:
Lets say you get your wish and drop rates are drastically inscreased. Item values will go down and there will be a huge supply of unsellable weapons(who would buy anything if its so easy to get). Finding a buyer would take forever and earn you little gold, so you are left with farming gold(coin/merch fodder). If you need gold to buy something that you can't get as a drop(armor; skills), you just have to farm till you make enough. So, now hardcore farmers are still making their gold(even more now) and casual players find it harder to break even. This situation does nothing to fix the "ebay problem".

Wrong. It will not change the amount of gold casual players make, and they can still purchase their goods and supplies from the merchants at regular prices. What it does not do is leave them at the mercy of hard mode farmers to get everything that has any value to being effective in the game. The current situation leaves the general GW public completely at the mercy of a few elite Hard Mode farmers while obliterating the opertunity for casual players to take care of themselves. It ensures casual players must be economically dependent upon the supplies from hard mode farmers. This in turn ensures that players that cannot have the time to farm or have other responsibilities or interests besides robotic assembly-line virtual loot production will turn to other means of acquisition because of the restrictions preventing them from being self-sufficient. What would happen as a negative is farmers would no longer have a reason to farm after all their accounts were maxed out. Then they might give up their psychosis of assembly line substitutionary labor and instead actually play the game and perhaps, OMG – role playing or PvPing.

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mr_stealth:
...if you cant farm the weapon you want, then BUY it from someone INGAME!

Erm…
…if you can’t buy the weapon you want then what? No one sells it. It’s a collector weapon.

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Dont go blaming the loot system and starting the "everyones using ebay" argument just because you cant get decent drops.

Hence, it can only be gotten from loot. And I have every right to blame ebayers for destroying the game economy and ANet for never dealing with it correctly.

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Its only a small % which do that though. I dont get why people think ebay is an epidemic within GWs, because I've never met anyone who uses it for the game.

Maybe it is because of the hundreds of Monk/Mesmers that were running in and out of Altrumm Ruins today? Just maybe? I have reported it on more than one occasion to ANet and they have done very little or nothing.

The only way to destroy the botting is to provide people what they want. Eliminate the interest in the botting by destroying the interest in their services: Open up the drops. Eliminate rare, uncommon, and common ranks and go straight out max on prefixes, inscriptions, and suffixes. Players will still be able to trade for things they have not found and currency will be sufficient to buy things they have advanced to through game play. The South gate of Beacon’s Perch can be closed if any party contains a level 19 or lower in it – if that is an issue. Most people are level 20 by the time they reach LA anyway so there would still be running to Droks under this condition.

jrk247 · Jul 13, 2007, 10:21 PM // 22:21

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Originally Posted by jrk247

Here's something for the OP.

Hey, take it already!

myword · Jul 13, 2007, 10:28 PM // 22:28

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Originally Posted by DeBron

15h . . . wow.

i know. i'm still staggered by that admission, how bad can a person's life be that he wants to escape it that badly

ockhams · Jul 13, 2007, 10:37 PM // 22:37

i wont even read ur wind anymore... just plz unistall. go ride wheelies on ur wheelchair or something. very few ppl i hate, but with this much constructive criticism that you have ignored... you surely are a moron. hate

around · Jul 14, 2007, 03:08 AM // 03:08

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You may kill me but you will never defeat me.

This sentence makes no sense.

Akuma · Jul 14, 2007, 03:22 AM // 03:22

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Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

I don’t think you were paying attention. There was no discussion concerning any staff mods. I was working Echovald Forest and specifically targeting all Gaki aMore random ranting here

You're dumb.

I can make enough money in an hour to create a staff with whatever stats you'd NEED, (unless it's something ridiculously stupid, like +1 DM) I have no idea why you wouldn't be able to.

By the way, making drops abundant would destroy the game more than it would help it.

Curse You · Jul 14, 2007, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akuma

I can make enough money in an hour to create a staff with whatever stats you'd NEED, (unless it's something ridiculously stupid, like +1 DM) I have no idea why you wouldn't be able to.

The +1 Mastery for staffs are the same for all attributes. It automatically adjusts to the weapon's requirement. So it would still be nice and cheap.

Kakumei · Jul 14, 2007, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

I am my guild and I will Never allow you or anyone else to make me destroy my colors, my coat of arms, or my individuality. I am quite aware that with the creation of Factions it was ANets intention to coerce the destruction of all non-Zerg guilds and obliterate all PvE players. I will never submit to either.

You mean one with no indivudality, creativity, or personal expression? I see plenty of such "decent guilds." You are not big enough to make me. You may kill me but you will never defeat me.

You are the best gimmick ever because there is no goddamn way you are real.

korcan · Jul 14, 2007, 07:35 AM // 07:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Did I use the term "makes you a better player"? No and I didnt mean in that context.

When I used the term "imbalances the game" I was refereing to people who have user real-world money to buy ingame gold having an advantage at making gold which other players dont.

That shouldnt happen because we dont all have that choice or ability, due to varied real-world wealth.

We should all be on equal ground by only using gold that we earn inside the game. We all start with nothing ingame, and we all have the same facilities and abilities available to use to earn that gold.

Whether it be trading, farming and/or drops.

I never meant to suggest that ebaying makes a player better. Material wealth and posession certainly doesnt make a person better at anything.

But by using real-world money to buy ingame money or materials, it gives an unfair advantage that not everyone has. A person who is poorer in the real world, cant afford to blow £1-£10 on buying millions in gold or materials on ebay.

Its an edge they shouldnt have. We shouldnt have outside influences benefiting players in the game concerning wealth, because we dont have all the outside influences to use.

We should all have the same advantage and abilities to make gold, to ensure an balanced economy.

what about people that have no lifes that play gw 24/7? they obviously have a distinct advantage that is directly correlated with their real-life situation. except for the op, most people that play all day 24/7 probably have no problems making enough money for collector weapons or weapons with max stats.

i personally have no qualms about people ebaying gold. it doesnt effect me and if anyone can prove that ebayers are contributing to in-game economic inflation, please provide some type of compelling hard evidence and not just "theory" and "conjecture".

if anything, the people that play 24/7 and amass tons and tons of in-game wealth are the ones that cause prices on "rares" to skyrocket.

ebaying gold is just against the eula so youre obviously risking your account if you get caught but its not like its gonna get you thrown in jail and tagged with a permanent criminal record.